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The following message was posted to: PharmPK
The evolving discussion on mouse tail issues has been very interesting.
Do people have experience of similar issues with rat tails in relation
to
administration and sampling ?
Thanks
Dave Vowles
[Note the change of subject - db]
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The following message was posted to: PharmPK
I have had experience with serial sampling from the tail in rats. We
used the "milking method" at first. Although I found this method to be
messy, it was effective. Basically you would snip the tail with scissors
and milk the tail collecting blood from the wound. Its best to have the
rat restrained during this procedure.
But, the best way of serial sampling by using sampling methods from
Catheterized rats. The samples are clean and easy to do.
Hope this helps
Nicole Risher, B.S.
PTC Therapeutics
Pharmacology-Profiling
100 Corporate Court
South Plainfield, NJ 07080
Phone: 908-222-7000 x 317 voicemail only
Phone: 732-235-4337 UMDNJ
Fax: 908-222-7231
mailto:nrisher.-at-.ptcbio.com
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Dear Dave,
I have to admit that I have been mainly concentrating on mice but I
have come across one paper that you may want to check out.
Unfortunately (for me), it is in Japanese. The abstract does mention
the tail vein.
[Comparison between the blood from orbital sinus and heart in
analizing plasma biochemical values--increase of plasma enzyme values
in the blood from orbital sinus]. [Japanese] Jikken Dobutsu.
Experimental Animals. 42(1):99-102, 1993 Jan. Izumi Y. Sugiyama F.
Sugiyama Y. Yagami K.
Another very interesting paper, but ever so slightly OT, is this one:
Method to quantify tail vein injection technique in small animals.
Contemporary Topics in Laboratory Animal Science. 43(1):35-8, 2004 Jan.
Groman EV. Reinhardt CP.
Some very recent observations in our lab suggest that drug
extravasation in rat tails can be a problem too after iv administration
(it helps if you have a brightly coloured drug solution).
HTH,
Frederik Pruijn
--
Frederik B. Pruijn PhD MSc (Senior Research Fellow)
Experimental Oncology Group
Auckland Cancer Society Research Centre
Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences
The University of Auckland
Private Bag 92019
Auckland
New Zealand
Phone: +64-9-3737 599 x86939 or x86090
Fax: +64-9-3737 571
E-mail: f.pruijn.-at-.auckland.ac.nz
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The following message was posted to: PharmPK
I feel very worried about some techniques described in this discussion
in terms of Animals Ethics. Getting blood samples for PK analysis
should not be done at the expense of ethics rules.
Sincerely yours
Antoine DESLANDES, PhD
DMPK Senior Manager
CENTELION SAS
72-82 Rue Leon Geffroy
94408 VITRY SUR SEINE CEDEX
FRANCE
Phone (33).1.58.93.36.30
Fax (33).1.58.93.35.05
[A good reminder. Thank you for this comment. Standards of care change
and approval of all animal and human research should be appropriately
reviewed and approved before the work is started. Techniques used in
older reports may no longer be appropriate. Local standards may be
different. Maybe a reference to 'official' standards would be useful -
db]
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I am not sure of the origins of this discussion, but to put my
experience in, of a number of years ago. We used to put mice into a
warm tray and then we found that this dilated the tail veins and on
putting the mouse in a 'restrainer', I found that I could take blood
fairly easily from the tail vein. Ocassionally the tail got a bit
messy after a few goes, but by and large it seemed to work.
Graham Mould
Guildford Clinical Pharmacology Unit
Surrey Technology Centre
40 Occam Road
Guildford, GU2 7YG
Surrey
Tel: 01483 688304
fax: 01483 455375
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Hi !!
I do have experience with sampling from rat tail artery, although it
was some 25 years ago. I had really very good results- I was working on
my M.S. thesis. Injections were also done through the tail vein. It was
a routine method used in Dr. G. Levy's lab (SUNY-AB). Hoewever, thing
may not work the same way in a rat, tail is very fine.
Gul
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The following message was posted to: PharmPK
Graham,
My input on this subject was to note the experiences of some people
reporting
using mice [ie the tail should be used with caution because it may not
represent
the central compartment for administration or sampling] and find out if
those
concerns were also relevant for rat [many regulatory submissions that I
have
been involved in have used data from such procedures in the rat]
Thanks
Dave Vowles
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The following message was posted to: PharmPK
Dear David
Thank you for your comment.
I would suggest this new version (mixing my comment and yours) :
I feel very worried about some techniques described in this discussion
in terms of Animals Ethics. Getting blood samples for preclinical PK
analysis
should not be done at the expense of ethics rules.
Standards of care change and approval of all animal and human research
should be appropriately reviewed and approved before the work is
started. Techniques used in older reports may no longer be appropriate.
The following reference provides guidance for good practices : Diehl
KH, Hull R, Morton D, Pfister R, Rabemampianina Y, Smith D, Vidal JM,
and van d, V (2001) A good practice guide to the administration of
substances and removal of blood, including routes and volumes.
J.Appl.Toxicol. 21:15-23.
Best regards,
Antoine DESLANDES, PhD
DMPK Senior Manager
CENTELION SAS
72-82 Rue Leon Geffroy
94408 VITRY SUR SEINE CEDEX
FRANCE
Phone (33).1.58.93.36.30
Fax (33).1.58.93.35.05
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